Message Board

  1. Is a kaleidoscopic theory applicable for Acquinas and Daly?
  2. How do the theories of Acquinas and Daly work with/do not work with a “waves” metaphor?
  3. How do you see the Catholic Church, a long standing and important institution in the West, shape the way we contemporarily view gender?

45 thoughts on “Message Board

  1. 1.) The kaleidoscopic theory is applicable for Acquinas and Daly. When you look into a kaleidoscope, you can see distinct colors and patterns. In the same way, the theories of Acquinas and Daly go deeper into the creation and issues of women and gives us a clear view as to what women went through. For example, in the theory of Daly, there are many examples of women not being seen as valuable as men. Women were used as a reproductive tool and most jobs in the church were taken by men. There is questioning as to whether women and men should be equal in the Acquinas theory. A clear issue is being put to light and that is why the kaleidoscopic theory is applicable.

    2.) The waves metaphor works with the Acquinas and Daly theories because it suggests that there was a certain issue concerning women compatibility during a certain time period and from then has taken a new form but also doesn’t work because it doesn’t put as big an emphasis on the issue.

    3.) The catholic church shapes the way we contemporarily view gender by describing the different roles men and women had in the church. Women were not seen as compatible as men. For example, the church duties/jobs such as the priest, pope, servers, and the individuals in charge of confessions and the confirmation were all taken by men. Another example is a woman journalist could not take holy communion because she was a woman in the Vatican II. Women who were auditors in the Vatican could only listen and not speak. In addition to that, women were seen as a reproductive tool to some men.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. 1.Yes the kaleidoscope theory is applicable for Aquinas and Daly. A kaleidoscope is unique because when you look at it from one view it is hard to focus on the images around it. Once you turn it you see something that isn’t what you thought it was. Kaleidoscopes show you that you have to look at things from a different perspective and angle. The theory is applicable because both Daly and Aquinas bring up points that can be interpreted in different ways. For example, Aquinas argues that men and women are not equal to an extent, while Daly talks about how women are not held to the same standards as men .

    2. The theories of Aquinas and Daly do not work with the waves metaphor because even though they talk about issues with women they do not talk about it enough to where it is a big issue or something that became a movement.

    3. Catholic churches shape the way that we view gender by telling women that someone of higher power cannot be a women, especially in the church a women is not a priest or bishop. This is because God did not choose a women to be one of his 12 disciples. They also believe and teach that women are not as perfect as men. Because of this I think a lot of people still follow these rituals and always turn to the bible and church when faced with a decision involving gender.

    Like

  3. 1. The kaleidoscope theory is applicable for Aquinas and Daly. The kaleidoscope theory explains how some colors are more noticeable than others and new patterns are always being created. This ties in with Aquinas and Daly because they were explaining how men are always seen as the dominant sex, so in the kaleidoscope they are the more pronounced colors. Meanwhile woman are seen as a ‘helper” to man as explained in Aquinas and Daly explain how women are excluded in the catholic church. Therefore they are always the less pronounced colors in the kaleidoscope.

    2. The Aquinas and Daly theories work with the waves metaphor because they focus on a certain time period of woman. The theories cover how woman were created in Aquinas and explains a woman’s role in the Catholic church in Daly’s theory. Both theories focus within the catholic religion which can we separated into a wave category. On the other hand, they do not work with the waves metaphor because the waves are a metaphor for when feminism was at its highest. And these theres do not prove that women were fighting to make a change within the Catholic religion or in general.

    3. The catholic church makes us view the genders as unequal. The church is degrading woman and constantly reminding them that men are the superior sex. By not having female priests, having a male bishop, male alter serves, woman are not treated equally. The church is insinuating that woman are not as important as men or as capable as them.

    Like

    1. 2. The Aquinas and Daly theories work with the waves metaphor because they focus on a certain time period of woman. The theories cover how woman were created in Aquinas and explains a woman’s role in the Catholic church in Daly’s theory. Both theories focus within the catholic religion which can we separated into a wave category. On the other hand, they do not work with the waves metaphor because the waves are a metaphor for when feminism was at its highest. And these theories do not prove that women were fighting to make a change within the Catholic religion or in general. If you look at catholic religion today there has been little to no change over the years after these theories came out. The waves metaphors cover feministic movements and actions these theories do not explain any actions taking place, they just explain the sexism in the catholic church that still has not changed.

      Like

  4. 1. Yes, I think the kaleidoscope theory is applicable for Acquinas and Daly. It applies because in both articles, people see things differently, and that’s the point of the kaleidoscope, you can see things in different perspectives. In Acuqinas article, the author shows that different people have different ideas. Also in the article some of the people take their ideas straight from the bible and are very conservative of how they see things. For example, one of the questions were whether the women should have been made in the first production of things, and some people say no because women need men because they were under his power. But the author says it was necessary for women to be made. In Daly’s article she shows that in the Catholic Church most people are conservative, and still haven’t accepted modern things. For example, women becoming priest, and birth control. But towards the end of her article she talks about how some people are becoming more open and accepting about these topics. All of this shows that not everyone thinks the same, which makes the theory applicable.

    2. I think the theories of Aquinas and Daly does not work with the “waves” metaphor because the metaphor generalizes things. It doesn’t specify how people feel and what their true perspective is.Generalizing that everyone thought the same would give false information, which wouldn’t fit with neither of the articles. In both articles they have to specify who thinks what because not everyone had the same thought, everyone had different ideas. Since everyone had their own ideas, the “wave” metaphor wouldn’t work.

    3. The Catholic Church shapes the way we contemporarily view gender by constantly telling us that only men can be this, and men can do that. In the Catholic Church men were the “important” ones. They were the only ones that could be priest, servers, popes, and many other things. Even God is seen as being a male. The only thing women could do is become nuns. As a women, seeing this makes it seem like we aren’t important enough to be involved, or we’re worthless.

    Like

  5. 3. In 2016 people may suggest that no one would allow a religion, such as the Catholic Church, to have an impact on anyone’s views anymore but they would be wrong. In the Catholic Church men are viewed as the superior human being, one that is greater compared to the women and sadly there are people out there who believe that and live by it. Women are seen as far too emotional or weak compared to men, such as in the article by Mary Daly she points out certain things that go on in a church. For example, the highest position a woman may be granted in the Catholic Church is become a nun which brings up another point. Women are not allowed to become a priest or a pope, with these points that are easy to notice do really shape the way we contemporarily view gender.

    Like

  6. 3. The Catholic Church shapes the way we see gender roles with stories from the bible, how mass is carried out, and their attitude toward that make it seem that men are superior to women. Daly points out in the interview with Edward Maron that “women in the concrete as individuals are not treated as human beings of equal stature with men in the church “. Since she states how nuns aren’t even part of the clergy in the church, instead everything in the church is run by men. She gives an example how a girl attends church and the only pronouns used are he and him, she then continues to say that the girl is “conditioned to think in terms of specific inferiority because of this.”

    Like

  7. 3. In the beginning, God made Eve through the removal of Adams rib. This very act is used as a justification, by the Catholic Church, for the roles we give to both men and women. Women are taught to be cooperative with men in a subordinate role while men are placed at the top of the hierarchy as an honorary and powerful figure. We’ve been conditioned, from the start, to degrade women and praise men. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church had a grave impact in the way we contemporary view gender.

    Like

    1. 3. The Catholic Church tells that both men and women cannot be equal. In today’s society we try to achieve gender equality but its not possible. Ever since the Adam and Eve incident, the Catholic had such a grave on both men and women. The Catholic Church tells that Men are important and should always be in charge. Women are viewed as being useless and taking orders from men. That is the way I see the Catholic Church shape the way we contemporarily view gender.

      Like

  8. 2. The theories of Acquinas and Daly do not work with the “Waves” metaphor because both Acquinas and Daly are both pro male activism and sin of women, which do not work with the waves metaphor because each wave supports a different part of feminism of being more helpful to both gender groups. While Daley discusses catholicism which has bee known to be antiwomen and antisex. All of this seems to go against the wave metaphor and also feminism itself.

    Like

  9. 3) The Catholic Church plays a huge role in shaping the way we contemporarily view gender through its teachings and ideologies. Many of the children that are raised in a religious household are taught from a young age to follow their religious teachings and the religious book that pertains to it. In those books, women are not viewed as equal to men in that in many of the sayings, women are the subordinates to males and are usually viewed as the house keeper while the male is viewed as the provider for the family; never the other way around. In the Catholic church (and in many other religions), this goes a step further and disallows women from becoming priests or anything higher than a Nun. These views shape the way many people think of gender and until it changes, there is no feasible resolution to it.

    Like

  10. 1. Kaleidoscopic theory is indeed applicable to Acquinas and Daly. It is so because both persons are speaking about one topic: the issues of the church concerning women. Now, although both may have different views, all opinions are consolidated into one subject, such as that of a kaleidoscope which has one viewing hole and presents a variety of colors within it. Daly says, “..the church has actually humiliated and degraded women,” while Acquinas points out, “..woman should not use authority over man.”

    Like

  11. 2. There may be many existing reasons as to why Daly’s theory may or may not work with the wave metaphor but one of the reasons why it may not work with the wave metaphor is due to the size of impact that it made in society. Daly says in the interview that her book, “The Church and the Second Sex,” “..did not receive adequate attention in the United States.” Now, waves concern movements, and movements concern a group of people. But, who’s to say that Daly was not backed up by a group of people? Chances are, she was indeed followed by others who supported her and her theory. However, in terms of impact, the wave metaphor may not be suitable for Daly’s theory. Now, concerning Acquinas’ theory, it is a matter of opinion of all people. The historical movements categorized in ‘waves’ may have been ignited by the religious standards promulgated by the Catholic Church. So, the question, ‘does Acquinas theory work or not work with the wave metaphor’ can be answered when we dive deeper in the topic and engage in tedious research which may be unnecessary for this short response. But perhaps we can shed light to other questions such as, “what is the true role of women in the church?” and consider this: the problem is not with God, but with man’s interpretation of who God is that could possibly be a misinterpretation, and man’s inability to adhere to and understand God’s Word which is in the Bible. Perhaps this is a thought worth pondering.

    Like

  12. From my perspective I see the Catholic Church as an unfair way when talking about gender. Since the beginning, women were judged based on committing a sin and since that day, women were seen as inferior and weak to society and men. In church, men can be priests and a pope where as woman go as far as becoming a nun. This tells us that women serve men and that the church downgrades woman who seem to be unworthy. By all means, men and women are not equal and in reality, society today still views men as the superior humans.

    Like

  13. 2. I believe this situation is more like a wave especially because it has to do with religion. Religious people tend to have their mind set on their particular way of life without change; if anyone wanted to change the way women were treated in the Catholic Church it wouldn’t be religiously acceptable. For example, Women who want a say of their rights in the church would actually get noticed for a certain amount of time like a wave but eventually the wave crashes and everyone forgets about it because their use to their way of religion and don’t have room for change.

    Like

  14. 3. The catholic Church shapes the way we contemporarily view gender by describing the inside the church there’s Hierarchies that have been follow for many years. If you Women in a concrete you are not treated as human being of equal statute with men in the church because The Catholic church sees women like an instrument for reproduction and not partners, we are there to help “man” and to serve. When they gave nuns that opportunity to be in the auditors but not to have the right to talk by any chance because they already gave us the privilege to be sitting there being a woman and they need to be grateful for that. In every role inside the church a man is the only one that can perform not because he is the only one that is capable of doing it but only because he is a man and that makes him better already.

    Like

  15. 1. Yes, a kaleidoscopic theory is applicable for Aquinas and Daly. Seeing that this theory perspective highlight key elements that are influences which may be overlooked when getting a sense of how feminism evolved to accept more modern day beliefs and ideas. For example, The Catholic Church rituals may vary country to country with some places being more strict and some less strict concerning gay marriage rights. The kaleidoscope approach would highlight events in history which led to this acceptance which would not be represented in the waves metaphor if trying to get a more critical overview.

    2. The theories of Acquinas and Daly do not work with the waves metaphor because the waves metaphor is a small portion of effectiveness which excludes other manipulations such as minority experieces. The waves metaphor measure feminism effectiveness of all genders who high class influences dictate the outcome of effectiveness. Unlike the waves metaphor, the kaliedoscope focus on the minority influences which are definitely overlooked in the waves metaphor.

    3. The Catholic Church ultimately place strain on the upbringing of girls because ritually, Men are to lead and women are to follow. Having see power and control formulated by men only, you are already feeling displace in society because in reality, following men outside of religion do not guarantee safety. As we move forward with modern society, women work just as hard as man to provide in single family households. Which brings me to say, growing up with the idea that men are rulers and protectors are a discourse to reality where as gender power today lies solely in the work you produce. whoever makes more have more authority in a household. So even though men will always be at the top in Catholicism it is not a realistic function to abide by in society.

    Like

  16. 1) Yes. The kaleidoscopic theory is definitely applicable for Aquinas and Daily. When looking into a Kaleidoscope you would see that it contains recognizably different colors whose reflections are constantly changing pattern. An Example of this would be through aspects of the bible. For example, Aquinas states that woman is a “misbegotten” male and they shouldn’t be made in the first production of things. But also state that a woman is necessary to be made as a “helper” to man. All opinions are consolidated into one which is a prime example of the kaleidoscope, everyone has one viewing hole with many different opinions, thoughts and perspectives (colors, shapes and patterns) .

    Like

  17. 3. To acknowledge the impact that the Catholic Church has on Western society and gender today, we must first analyze the history of Western culture. The United States, specifically, was built upon values of faith. Europeans came here (England, Spain, Portugal, France) to promote the message of God and obtain glory and gold for their countries. But even still, all of these explorers were men. Often women were not seen as prominent figures, but were regarded as caretakers.
    Fast forwarding to the creation of our Constitution, both God and men are constantly included, not women. Later on, the phrase, “one nation under God” was specifically written in our national pledge during the Cold War. Throughout all of these time periods, we see that the role of women as mothers, and caretakers remain the same. Yet the role of the church and the presence of God in our country remains prevalent.
    The Catholic Church often shuts down the opposition that says women should have a voice, should be able to control their birth cycle, and choose what they want for their bodies. Even pertaining to rules, women are not allowed to venture into priesthood. This mentality of women being undeserving of certain career paths is displayed in not only the Catholic Church but also in conservative parts of society.

    Like

  18. A kaleidoscope refers to a device that focuses on certain color in the center of the view while other colors are blurry and when it is turned it shows different colors clear and other shades are blurry. The kaleidoscopic theory is applicable for Daly and Acquinas since both of them present varying views of the Catholic church and how the clergy view women. Daly highlights how women were considered lower in the religious rank compared the clergy such as the priests, the Pope, yet Mother Mary was placed on a pedestal. She presented several examples of how women were lower in status compared to clergy even if some of these women were nuns and they did not marry just like the clergy men did not. She does not argue for women to be priests but to have other rights such as using birth control pills. On the other hand, Acuinas has a different concern about women. He states that woman was created after man not because she is of lower status but because “subjection is a twofold” and he explains how female is subjected to male for her own benefit since “in man, the discretion of reason predominates.” This indicates since man has reasoning skills, he guides his subjects (in this case woman). This does not match clearly what he states about how Eve was made from Adam’s rib. He argues, if God had created Eve from Adam’s head, it might have represented authority over man or if it is from Adam’s feet, it might of represented women as the slave of man. Yet, this should indicate that God viewed man and woman as equal then why still woman has to be subjected to man’s reasoning skills. Overall, both Acuinas and Daly have different viewpoints on the Catholic church’s view of women and each looks at a varying angle which resembles observing a kaleidoscope.

    Like

  19. The Catholic Church shapes the way we contemporarily view gender by the explicitly different ways men and women are treated, and by the roles they play in the eyes of Catholicism. Women are seen as sexual figures instead of being glorified and protected, they are degraded and looked down on because they are not as perfect as the holy Virgin Mary. Most Catholic Church’s are close minded and still believe that women should be beneath men, because men are the most “powerful.” And if a person is born and raised in a Catholic home, they are probably more likely to follow these traditions into their own lives and families, and it will be an ongoing debate about whether women deserve to be as equal or even close to being equal to men.

    Like

  20. In my eyes the Catholic Church has pretty much labeled the role of males and females. The Catholic has given males a higher and more dominant rank in its system which has pretty much influenced that of all society. I see that women can only hold the position of a nun which isn’t the top position of the Catholic Church which shows that equality had been shifted towards the side of man. Today males and females can do the same things and one example that demonstrates this extraordinarily is the home, at home a male can hold down a single family just as well as a female can, therefore displaying that although the Catholic Church has given power that power is being shattered due to a continuously changing society.

    Like

  21. 3. The Catholic Church and Catholicism itself have played a huge role in shaping how we view gender and gender norms in the West. Although we are a country built on the idea of religious freedom and separation of church and state, religion plays a huge part in American culture and how many people shape their ideas and worldviews. It has been a part of this country since the first European settlers came to the Americas. In a country built by mainly deeply religious Catholic men, it’s impossible that these ideas didn’t seep into American culture anyway, placing women into a position of subservience and men into one of power. It can be argued that since the beginning of its days, Catholicism (and every other Abrahamic religion) has been shaping people’s opinions on men and women and their positions in society. Ever since woman was ‘created from man’s rib’, she was damned to a lesser status in society.

    Like

  22. 3. First of all, I respect all forms of religions under the sun and all beliefs of men whether theist or atheist, for all people deserve respect regardless of personal beliefs, status, race, ethnicity and gender. The Catholic Church however, have transformed the original sound doctrine formed by the early church into a convoluted list of rules and regulations of their own liking. Just a brief history of Christianity and the evolution of the Catholic Church for the sake of broadening our understanding, the Catholic Church and its values began when Emperor Constantine declared a unification of Christianity along with neighboring religions from neighboring countries in Rome sometime in 325 AD. One of those included religions was actually a mother-goddess based religion from Egypt, and this was adopted by Constantine into the Catholic Church, even though this destroys the purpose of the true church. And the figure that they chose was, yup, Mary Mother of Jesus, who is called by the Catholics as the Mother of God. This is not part of the true doctrine formed nor is it part of the true church that God designed, but rather it became a man made religion with its own self-made gods. Now, before all this, Christianity was not based on religion, but solely about a God who loves all people, and yes, including women. He created man and woman as equals, and God sees them as such, without favoritism. There was no one superior nor inferior, only two forms of humans co-existing in complete peace, reverence and submission to the God who created them. God designed the man to be the head and the woman to be the helper, not so that man can abuse woman, but for man to love and protect the woman and for the woman to be loved and protected. This is the design of God. Now when we talked about the “Sin of Woman,” I couldn’t help but think that there was something off there. The “Sin of Man,” perhaps? What about the “Sin of Mankind?” Again, for the sake of clarification, the “Sin of Mankind” was not only held against the woman (Eve), but also against the man (Adam). Man was also accountable because if you were to read about the Beginning in the book of Genesis Chapter 3, Adam also ate the forbidden fruit and disregarded the command of God which led to the birth of sin along with Eve. And moreover, Adam quickly pointed fingers (Genesis 3:12). The point here is this, both have sinned, and the blame is equally placed on both sexes. No one is superior nor inferior. No one was exempt from the wrath of God. Though, both male and female had dissimilar functions, both had a common assignment from God, which was to “subdue the land and multiply in number.” But they both have sinned and have become separated from God and the perfect design of God. When sin entered, Adam and Eve not only received curses, but also was robbed of peace, easiness of life, a perfect family, a perfect life, etc. by Satan, according to John 10:10 and Genesis 3:14-24. Until God sent his one and only Son, Jesus Christ, who was without sin, but was ridiculed, judged, despised, rejected, and hated by men, to become once and for all the only way back to God through dying on the cross and rising from the dead three days later, since sin entered the world through Adam and Eve’s mutually committed sin. Jesus Christ destroyed the early ‘haters’ of women. For example, in Jesus’ time, women are almost regarded as things to be owned rather than partners to work with, and these views were adopted by the Romans, Greeks, and Jewish communities at that time. But Jesus resented this ideology. Instead, Jesus showed genuine love and compassion along with respect towards women. When other religious leaders would not allow women to even attend their gatherings and be taught, Jesus would include women in his audience when he preached salvation to men. Like the woman at the well (John 4), when Jesus shared the topics of eternal life to a woman, even when religious leaders of that time forbid it. He refused to disregard women so he chose to treat them with equality. When the Roman Catholics put Mary on a pedestal to be worshipped, Jesus gave up his heavenly throne to come to earth to be with us, a people who rejected him and his love, to serve us and not to be served by us (Mark 10:45), to give his life for us so that we may once again experience the original plan of God, to be with him. And this is the love of God, which destroys all hate, even injustices, unfairness, and inequality against women and men altogether. Before I close, I want to end where I began with this response, I respect all religions under the sun, for they all deserve respect. But no religion has the power to bring salvation, maybe perhaps some form of justice, or equality, or rights but salvation is attained only through the one God, Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church has contributed to the millions of people that are misinformed about the gospel of Jesus Christ, and it has suppressed the truth: truth about love, and compassion, respect for all people, and this suppression has led many people to see the church as something that its actually not, which resulted to conflict, confusion and arguments of all kinds. This is how the Catholic Church shaped the way we see gender.

    Like

  23. The theories of Aquinas and Daly do not work well with the “waves” metaphor. The waves metaphor demonstrates the turning points of feminism throughout history. It describes the battles women faced and in some cases were able to overcome. Aquinas uses the works of Aristotle to explain that female are the “misbegotten male”. In addition to this, Aquinas also uses Aristotle’s work to support the claim about “the sins of women being the reason why women are treated less than men”. Mary Daly states that the church has a record of contradictions with women; putting some on a pedestal such as Mary, while in person women were not treated as equals. If anything, women are belittled in the present society rather than raised. In the church women are at the lowest tear on the scale of hierarchical values. While there are females sitting in very humble positions with males, they are still not viewed as equals. To elaborate, a woman can be placed in the same tear on the scale mentioned previously, yet their opinions and voice are not respected. In fact, the opinion in some cases is not asked for. Both theories show that the church is anti woman and/or anti-sex. Neither theory mentions any piece of evidence to express the turning point in women’s lives therefore I believe their theories do not work well with the “waves” metaphor. If anything, these theories can be viewed as anti-feminist standpoints, instead of great accomplishments made by powerful women.

    Like

  24. 2.) The waves metaphor does work with the theories of Acquinas and Daly. The issues that are being spoken about in both theories are mostly black and white, there is no grey area. For example in Acquina’s theory all the arguments are very one sided, either it is pro-man or pro-women. The spots in between were very minimal. The wave metaphor is like that as well, when it has its ups and downs, but never acknowledging the after math or the grey area. Also is Daly’s theory, either a women is put on a pedestal like Mother Mary or like Nuns, treated like they are worthless and putting restriction on them, while men have less of a hard time. Both theories have extremes because of the aspect of religion that comes in, and religion is also supported by the wave metaphor.

    Like

  25. Yes, I think the kaleidoscope theory is applicable for Acquinas and Daly. It applies because in both articles, the authors see things differently, and that’s the point of the kaleidoscope, you can see things in different perspectives. In Acuqinas article, he talks about a different view of women than Daly. He talks about how women suffer because of her “sin”, she ate an apple, which she was told not to. Also he sees women as a type of deformity, a “misbegotten male”. While In Daly’s article she talks about how the Catholic Church is still conservative, and still haven’t accepted modern things. For example, women becoming priest, and birth control. But towards the end of her article she talks about how some people are becoming more open and accepting about these topics. She also talks about Mary, the mother of Christ. She says that Mary is worshiped upon, but still doesn’t get the same respect as men. The mother of Christ is seen listening to other men in the Bible, she listens to Jesus and Joseph. So even though she’s virgin Mary, just because she’s a women she is seen differently. All of this shows that both authors have a different perspective on women, which makes the theory applicable.

    Like

  26. A kaleidoscope is a toy that is unique because it constantly changes patterns, shapes and colors making them smaller and bigger. The kaleidoscope theory is applicable for Aquinas and Daly. They both came from a different perspective which makes them unique. Yes, they do bring up issues and the creation of women, but it’s different so going back to the kaleidoscope, there’s changes in colors and shape because of the different views these two people have regarding women. St Thomas goes on an analytical argument saying that a woman is a misbegotten made and we have a lack of rationality, there is a tense argument whether or not men and women are equals. Meanwhile, Daly talks about the inequality amongst the catholic church. Catholic rituals are in favor with men which leads to inferior feelings to women.

    Like

  27. The kaleidoscopic theory is applicable for Acquinas and Daly in the sense that there are many different ways to view women. According to Acquinas , there are different theories as to how women were created along hand with as to why they were created that way. Acquinas uses the word “misbegotten” to describe women who happen to be seen inferior in a way in the Catholic church. On the other hand , Daly questions the suppression of women in the Catholic church. These are different views on women, like the kaleidoscope when you turn it, made by different people. There are certain views that women are sinners, while on the other hand there are views that women must try to be “Mary” as seen in Daly’s interview.

    Like

  28. 3. The Catholic Church, or Catholicism has had a tremendous impact on how society addresses the two genders. Many contradictions have occurred in the Catholic Church which has created confusion. For example, the church has depicted women as being an important factor in life such as being the mother of Jesus, but at the same time the church has degraded women with the idea of women being made by the rib of a man and not by God himself. Keeping this idea in mind, women came to be seen as inferior to men because of this belief rather than superior or equal. This belief also came to signify since the woman came from the man that she should neither “use authority over man”. Basically, women were not able to voice their opinions or question a man since they were made by a part of man which proves the idea of men being made by God and women from men. This belief gave men a sense of power and control over women. God created a man and a woman as equals, or in other words for both to enhance each other and grow together with the idea of reproducing. Society has viewed women as being less to than a man and with submissive attitudes because of these beliefs that exist within the Catholic Church.

    Like

  29. 3. Catholic Churches for years have been shaping the way we view gender because they establish gender roles. They have painted a picture for woman to ideally be submissive. They describe women in a way in which we are only good for reproduction. That women become significant only when they birth a child. The church views the ideal woman to be like the Virgin Mary; modest, and not engaging in sexual activity. The referral to Adam and Eve, the fact that the woman had came from the man’s rib, entitles men to believe that women are beneath men, and not as significant. In the Catholic Church, a woman can not become a Priest, Or a bishop. The only thing she can become is a nun. I believe that the Catholic Church for as long as they have been around, have degraded women and held them at a lower standard than men.

    Like

  30. The Catholic Church has a tremendous influence on our view of gender in the modern day, which hits hardest in America. It shapes our view of genders negatively because it essentially puts women at a status way below men. Putting emphasis on teaching the ideals about the Virgin Mary helps justify the set gender roles of men and women in society. Mary is used by the church to establish the ideal that women should be obedient to man, as well as taking the role of birthing children, and not much more. The church uses the old ideals of women being created as a part of man, meaning they are not created by god, giving them an inferior position compared to males. The Catholic Church not only represents these ideals, but also does not allow women to gain as high of a standing, religiously, as men. Women are eligible to take the position of a nun, however they are not allowed to proceed any further or higher than that title.

    Like

  31. 3) The Catholic religion and religion in general has always shaped people’s perception of themselves and the world around them. Our examination of the story of Adam and Eve is a prime and lasting example. While some religions have reduced the amount of blatant sexism. The story more of less ties women to sexuality, sin, and motherhood. It wasn’t many years ago that women were expected to stay home and take care of the household. As far as sexuality women are constantly slut shamed for being promiscuous and also shamed for being prude. The church also set up a hierarchy were men are always at the top. Today women aren’t as present in voting and politics which are overwhelmingly male dominated. While women are teachers which may seem it goes against early teachings, women still find themselves in care taking roles. Things as simple as engagement rings show the lasting inequality, while women are expected to wear ring showing the male ownership while the men are not

    Like

  32. 1. Yes, i would argue that the kaleidoscope theory would be the best way to metaphorically convey the message in which Acquinas and Daly were trying to prove. Much like a kaleidoscope changes and augments the image being projected, Acquina’s and Daly augment the theological and societal image of what it means to be a woman by deconstructing the social and theological notion of womanhood and femininity.

    2. By definition, a wave is a build up of energy from the ocean that at its highest point accumulates and crashes on the shoreline. Much like the movement of feminism during the suffrages and after, the fight for female equality has always been a fight for a select few, ie; white middle class women. Hence, i don’t think the wave analogy perfectly describes what Acquinas and Daly set out to do, which was to comprehend the idea and understanding of what femininity and being a woman was from a theological and social perspective by deconstructing what it meant to be a woman – how femininity was seen in the eyes of the church and the roles in society and in the church that women were allowed to hold.

    3. Gender roles and most religious ideologies are highly intertwined, they dictate the role of ‘man’ and the role of ‘woman’ in society and the catholic church is no different. The catholic church dictates that only men can be priests and the highest role a woman can serve within the catholic hierarchy is a nun. However, as the catholic church struggles to maintain its dominance in western culture, it is being forced to adapt to a society that understands that gender roles aren’t rigid and are actually quite fluid. By doing so, the catholic church is being forced to adapt alongside these societal changes. For example, i was raised catholic and no longer practice, but i recall being a kid being dragged to church by my parents and always loathing the experience. However, i always noticed that the church has always had a firm stance on homosexuality and strongly forbade it. However, recently, i went back home to visit my parents and agreed to go to church with them during Christmas and noticed that the church i always attended as a kid that had strong views against homosexuality suddenly has a gay priest.

    Like

  33. 2) It is hard for me to decide whether the readings fit the waves metaphor because the waves metaphor sounds like a bunch of bs. The idea seems to be that the feminist movement or just the attempt of improving the treatment of women, comes in bursts and slowly fades until the next burst. Which to me sounds like an attempt to undermine and disrespect the daily struggle. Assuming this metaphor can hold any ground, Aquinas is primarily speaking about one time period and doesn’t seem to do anything but prompt sexism and fails to discuss much else. Dalys piece can arguably go hand in hand with the waves metaphor. She explains how women were viewed in early church days, saying they were contradictory placed on a pedestal while simultaneously degrading them. She then goes on to a more present time where she claims the existence of women priets are crushing hierarchy

    Like

  34. In order to examine how the theories of Acquina and Daly relate to metaphorical “waves” we must understand just what these gender theories are. Acquina is proposes the only role that women have to men is being helpful to them. They can not possess the role of a helpmate or any equal role based upon the biblical hierarchy provided by its verses. Daly’s theory is that women can not be equivalent to a man based upon the norms of the church and the tradition that only men should have powerful positions within it. Two concrete theories arise and one is supported by the bible while the other is supported by the church. So do these theories cohere to the guidelines of the “waves” metaphor. In these theories the examples the authors use do not include examples of movements in which women, who they argue are inferior to men, create a movement or cohesive stance against their sex counterparts. The lack of movements or cohesive stances that these authors were able to muster in their arguments makes it unequivocally not relate to the metaphorical “waves”.

    Like

  35. the theory of kaliedoscope is definately applicable to Acquinas and Daly as we can se that kaleidoscope has many different colors and patterns , it changes every time we see through it and also it has different perpective same way in the thoery of Acquinas and Daly we see so many different issues that are caused to women regarding their rights and their importance in the society, they are not treated equally as men and are always underestimated .
    the metophor waves work with the Acquinas and Daly’s thoery because as a wave women are seen through the time , until now how women were treated and how they raise their voice for theri rights . Same way how Acquinas and Daly tells us about women’s role in the Catholic chruch in those days, how women were said to be and how their role was not so meaningful to men.
    The Catholic church does no justice for women , it makes us not believe in equal rights, we dont see women playing any kind of role in Catholic church, which icults and makes women incapable of anything that men are supposed to be doing.

    Like

  36. It’s true, many of us enjoy looking through the viewer of a kaleidoscope for the basic reasons – it’s amazing art, same way how there are changes going on in a woman’s life throughout these years, this theory is applicable to Acquinas and Daly because it shows how women have changed in these many years just because of the societal conditions that were created and forced on them. They were shaped differently then men.
    Yes, the wave metaphor works with Acquinas and Daly because wave shows how time has passed and how the wave as a metaphor has changed whatever that came in its way similar to how women has been changed in these many years to bring change in the society. Acquinas and Daly show the time and role of women in Catholic Church and how the wave metaphor has transformed into movement.

    Like

  37. 1.Yes, kaleidoscopic theory applicable for Acquinas and Daly. Acquinas is different in many ways. It clarifies the theory in a creative ways. It explains how different color people are seen or treated based on the skin. And says also how men are superior then women. And as for the Daly its more how women are not involve in the Catholic Church. Women are seen week or too emotional.
    2. The waves metaphor doesn’t works with the Acquinas and Daly theories because they explain the issues involving women. Both theories talked about how women’s are excluded in the catholic but the wakes focuses in a period of time where feminism reached the highest.
    3. . I see the Catholic Church as an influence for the status of women. Women were not seen as compatible as men. Catholic churches shape the way that we see sex by telling women that someone of higher supremacy cannot be a women.

    Like

  38. 3.The Catholic Church labels the different roles men and women had in the church. Women were not seen as well-suited as men. for example a priest or bishop positions were all taken by men. They are also certain of those women are not as perfect as men. Men are viewed as the higher human being compared to the women and there are people who believe that and live by it. Women work just as hard as man to provide her family households. In the article by Mary Daly she points out couple of things, points that shapes the way we contemporarily view gender. For instants, the highest position or role women have in the catholic church is becoming nun, . God created a man and a woman as equals, but Society seen women as being less to than a man because of these beliefs that is been told in the Catholic Church. The church influence on values, beliefs, and practices in Western culture.The Catholic Church influence on how society speaks the two genders.

    Like

  39. 2) The “wave” metaphor is not applicable to the theories of Acquinas and Daly. While Acquinas and Daly are able to explain the ongoing issues/views with women and gender in terms of religious view points, they do not really discuss any types movements or set ideas trying to be put forth by a mass amount of people. The wave metaphor represents multiple movements for feminism when it was at it’s strongest point. Acquinas and Daly do not go into enough detail about movements, meaning a wave metaphor could not exactly be applied to their theories.

    Like

  40. How do you see the Catholic Church, a long standing and important institution in the West, shape the way we contemporarily view gender?

    The Catholic Church shaped the way we contemporarily view gender as it created a hierarchy in which man were always on the top giving orders, and women were all the way at the bottom obeying . This is a representation of how society in general views women, they are submissive to man and will always be in a men’s eye. According to Dr. Mary, the only time women were put on a “pedestal” was when “Mary-the ideal woman, the model” was used as a representation of women but the problem is that Virgin Mary is not a concrete representation for all women. Virgin Mary did get attention and somewhat reverence from men, and this contradicts how men back then and even today view women. I agree with her when she says that man downgrade women and that Catholicism itself started to manifest this idea as they always had a male figure that represented power and authority. For example she says how the ones always giving orders at the church were men, the ones women had to confess their sins to were men, and that the only way women could take position in church was by becoming a nun, and still obeying the rules of a priest, still a man. Until this day, women have been rejected or at least given the opportunity of becoming a priest and it will be consider absurd by society for women to have such role. None the less, this proves how even today there is a limited equality of men and women within the church.

    Like

  41. 1) I believe that the kaleidoscopic theory better suits Daly and Acquinas more than the “waves” metaphor. These two individuals have conflicting views, with Daly being a feminist while Acquinas is trying to mix science and religion theory to justify his sexist beliefs. Both are centered around religion, with Acquinas using it as a jutification, and Daly discussing the female role in religious practices. One side shows, initially, why females are oppressed, and the other discusses the importance and struggle to change the status quo that was set by the former’s beliefs.

    Like

  42. It’s true, many of us enjoy looking through the viewer of a kaleidoscope for the basic reasons – it’s amazing art, same way how there are changes going on in a woman’s life throughout these years, this theory is applicable to Acquinas and Daly because it shows how women have changed in these many years just because of the societal conditions that were created and forced on them. They were shaped differently then men. A kaleidoscope has different patterns and every time you tumble it you see different beauty, different reflection and patterns.One could argue that the thing you see is a fleeting moment of beauty, much like the fleeting moments we have in life. It’s often bittersweet, because nothing lasts forever. On the other hand, if you continue to tumble, you’ll eventually find new beauty in a different arrangement of the same pieces. It shows different perspective of everyone who looks through it, it shows how the mentality can change and it relates with what Daly’s says in the article. In Daly’s article she demonstrates that in the Catholic Church a great many people are preservationist, and still haven’t acknowledged cutting edge things. For instance, ladies getting to be minister, and contraception. Be that as it may, towards the end of her article she discusses how a few people are turning out to be more open and tolerating about these subjects. Every one of this demonstrates not everybody thinks the same, which makes the hypothesis pertinent.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s